Wednesday, 23 April 2014

Ticking Off Mark P. Shea

Hans-Georg Lundahl to Mark Shea
23/04/14 à 11h40
Tim O'Neill
You referred to him:

Catholic and Enjoying It : Honest Atheist Tim O’Neill on Bad Atheist History

So do I:

somehwere else : Is there Creation Science on This Blog?

"I started this when I was banned from defending St Paul's witness on a discussion held on Tim O'Neill's blog, and he told me 'go and preach to atheists somewhere else' ..."

Then there is the question of what was believed and taught about roundness and flatness of earth in Middle Ages:

New Advent > Catholic Encyclopedia > A > Antipodes

If Pope St Zachary had not been flat earther, he would hardly have misunderstood Vergilius the way he did, would he?

Meaning that even if flat earth was NOT ever dogma (unlike to Nestorians and Jewry), it was a thing one could believe, in even pretty high positions.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Mark Shea to Hans-Georg Lundahl
23/04/14 à 11h56
RE: Tim O'Neill
Not interested.


Hans-Georg Lundahl to Mark Shea
23/04/14 à 13h16
RE: Tim O'Neill
Ah, but you ARE interested in:

  • referring to him on your blog*
  • twice over calling my friends Sungenis and DeLano liars**
  • exonerating Lawrence Krauss and the actress from any least suspicion of lying about how they came into the film ...***

    to me that adds up:

  • you like certain enemies of the faith so well (not saying all) that you dislike Catholics on account of them.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Mark Shea to Hans-Georg Lundahl
23/04/14 à 17h19
RE: Tim O'Neill
I like honest atheists better than I like lying Christians.

I also dislike your stupid accusations.° Leave me alone.


Hans-Georg Lundahl to Mark Shea
23/04/14 à 17h44
RE: Tim O'Neill
And being a modernist makes you infallible about who is honest and who isn't?

A moderate such, that is. Not Küng style but Barron style, if you see what I mean.

Mark Shea to Hans-Georg Lundahl
23/04/14 à 18h13
RE: Tim O'Neill
And you're kill filed.


Hans-Georg Lundahl to Mark Shea
23/04/14 à 18h15
RE: Tim O'Neill
what does that expression mean?

* See his praise in link in first letter.

** See these links:

Catholic and Enjoying It : Liars for Jesus

Catholic and Enjoying It : Liars for Jesus, Part Deux

*** See this post:

Catholic and Enjoying It : Liars for Jesus denounced

° Not as if he had made any accusations against any friends of mine before this ... and not as if I had been able to reason through the accusation or reproach, with facts sketchily alluded to and backed up in the footnotes ... duh ...

Sunday, 6 April 2014

Origin of the Nations, Slight Disagreement with Kent Hovind

All Nations Are One Blood: From Adam and Eve, to Shem, Ham and Japhet, To the Present -104 - 9 of 10

Comments option disactivated. I sent my comments to the channel as mail. On the part concerned with title subject.

Hans-Georg Lundahl to KentHovindCSE
What was known of cosmology in Genesis 11
Noah would certainly have known a tower could not reach Heaven by sheer height of building. Nimrod and the guys may have ignored it and thought he was wrong or even not consulted him.

Other theory. More sophistication. Tower of Babel was original Cape Canaveral.

"a tower, the top whereof may reach to heaven:"

Was the top of the tower supposed to stay on the tower or supposed to lift off?

Of course, Jonathan Sarfati has argued the pre-Flood technology cannot have been all that high, the times were violent and so technological progress was impossible.

OK, how does he feel about the XXth C? Was it technological stasis because it was violent? Was it peaceful, as shown by its technological progress? It was very violent and very progressive. So, this could have been the case with pre-Flood technology too.

I do not think there was plastic, but you do not need plastic to build atomic bombs (if Mahabharata shows traces of Uranium and reflects, despite Theological Errors of the worst kind, conditions in Nod among Lamech's grandsons). Or to contemplate spacecraft. Perhaps not for genetic manipulation either. Genesis can have left out things so as not to encourage the sad researches seen in the past century.

A wild theory, but something to think about.

Or, if we get to next part of verse:

"and let us make our name famous before we be scattered abroad into all lands."

They may have wanted to build an Eiffel Tower or World Trade Centre AS AN UNITED human population.

Here is Haydock:

Ver. 4. Famous before; Hebrew lest, &c.; as if they intended to prevent that event. (Haydock) --- Their motive appears to have been pride, which raised the indignation of God. Nemrod, the chief instigator, might have designed the tower for a retreat, whence he might sally out and maintain his tyranny. (Menochius)
Hans-Georg Lundahl to KentHovindCSE
Habsburgs, royalty, Habsburg chin
1) Royalty had to marry royalty ...

a) only if wanting to stay in line for the throne. Our present King in Sweden had the law changed after his accession since Silvia Sommarlath was not a noble. His uncle went out of royalty to marry a bourgeois.

George IV made a secret marriage to a Catholic who was bourgeois. If he had stayed faithful to her, he could not have become George IV. Common rule against marriage with non-nobles, PLUS Test Act still in effect. He was not faithful.

b) however, if we see the consequences, it is a Masonic and Liberal lie to say they married sisters or first cousins.

Under the German King and Roman Emperor (or Roman Emperor Elect, since many were not crowned Emperors in Rome by the Pope) there were about 400 Reichsunmittelbar Princes - some of which were collectives, like Cities or Monasteries or Sees - but most of which were small states with a cute castle.

c) Roman Catholicism forbids marrying first cousins
Hans-Georg Lundahl to KentHovindCSE
Habsburgs, contd/end - the chin
Since the Duchy Austria ceased to have Babenbergs and started having Habsburgs for Dukes (with Ottokar of Bohemia as an Interlude), terrirtorial growth started, BUT usually by tactical marriages.

A Countess heiress of Tyrolea was nicknamed Maultasch - bagmouth or "mouth like a suitcase" - because of her big chin. The Duke or heir to the Duchy in Austria married her.

Hence the saying "let others make wars, happy Austria marry!" - and I suppose marrying an ugly woman is a happier way of gaining territory than starting a war or inviting neghbouring princes to a banquet to kill them, with their heirs, like the last Odinid in Uppsala, Ingjald did.

LOTS of Habsburgs inherited her chin. But marrying first cousins has nothing to do with it. It is true, Habsburg territories were at one time divided in two branches, and then these reunited through marriage. But it was not between first cousins, as said the Catholic Church forbids that close marriages:

Home > Summa Theologica > Supplement > Question 54
Question 54. The impediment of consanguinity
Article 4. Whether the degrees of consanguinity that are an impediment to marriage could be fixed by the Church?
Hans-Georg Lundahl to KentHovindCSE
Hamites = Black People? No.
Hamites > Black People. Black People + ... + ... = Hamites.

There is an open question with Mizraim is ONE or several sons of Ham. But he is/they are brother(s) of Chanaan.

Another brother of them, another son of Cham is Kush.

Now, Kush is the land you see south of Egypt.

This means that Kush, neither Mizraim nor Chanaan but just Kush, is the main ancestor of the Black People, the main peopler of Great Ethiopia, including today's Ethiopia, Sudan, in fact ultimately all [Black/Subsaharan] Africa.

Chanaan is ancestor of:

a) Lebanese (Phenicians)
b) some population subsumed under Hebrews in Holy Land and Jordan
c) Tunisians and Maltese (Carthaginians=Phenicians).

Since Phenicians had read hair, often enough, we may presume Chanaanite blood is present (though not main patrilinear ancestor) in Irish, Brits, Scandinavians, especially since we know Phenician traders went to the Tin Isles = British Isles, were you have Tin Mines. And some people from there have helped peopling Scandinavia. Irish were taken as slaves by Vikings and brought home to the North.
Hans-Georg Lundahl to KentHovindCSE
Chanaanites red heads? But wasn't King David ....
... he sure was either blond or ginger depending on what ever is the correct translation. It says in Holy Bible.

He also was as a Hebrew ritually certainly pure, but not quite "genetically pure bred."

He descends from Ruth. Ruth was a Moabite. Moabites were a non-Israelite but Hebrew tribe, descending from Lot's son Moab. They were idolaters and they mixed with the population of the land of Chanaan.

See my point?

Moabites had a lot of ancestry from Chanaan. Therefore so had Ruth. Therefore so had King David. [OK, less than Ruth, of course.]

If you like, therefore so has Our Lord.

I wonder if the ultimate fulfilment of the curse on Chanaan was not Our Lord washing the feet of his disciples and telling them - was it before that occasion? - Matthew 23:[11] He that is the greatest among you shall be your servant.

A curse turned into a blessing, as with "whatever is hung on a tree."
Hans-Georg Lundahl to KentHovindCSE
reading extract from Beowulf manuscript
Tha wæs on burgum Beowulf ....

(f without crossbar = long s, and w was written with a letter looking slightly like a y, but not open on top)

... Scyldinga (abbreviation over "leo")
Leod Cyning longe thrage folcum gefreo
Ge Faeder ellor hwaerf aldor of ear de-
oth th. him eft on woc heah healp dene heold

Then was in the castle Beowulf, .... "leo" (?) of the Scyldings
People's King a long time ? free to folks (?)
Ye Father ? sand dune age of ? ?
? ? him again, in/on high ? held help to the Dane
Hans-Georg Lundahl to KentHovindCSE
napkin / serviette
I was going to confront the notoriously not into Latin Mass Bergoglio "Pope" with "Tinto con Bocadillo". In Spain that means "red wine and sandwich". In Argentina that means "black coffee and pastry".

But napkin meaning diaper in Australia will do very fine to illustrate same point (serviette is the French word used for napkin in both German and Swedish, though in France it means towel).

Early Christians in Rome celebrated liturgy in Greek. Koiné Greek was a fixed language, the same as it had been since Alexander the Great. Then people stopped using it in Rome. One changed to Latin. I thought this was on order of Pope St Damasus, but it was before his time.

Then Latin started to change. THAT was when it was decided that Litrugy would be in the fixed Latin language. Not in a language you had to update every three years.

And using Anglo-Saxon or Irish at the start of the missions would have made as much sense as reading from a Bible printed in Swahili just after getting in touch with Bantus. SO Liturgy was in Latin in St Patrick's and St Augustine of Canterbury's missions too.

THAT is the true story of Latin Liturgy, not any supposed need of keeping the Bible hidden from the people.

Speaking of St Augustine*:

A short link will work in the adress bar. Not in the google search bar, which will only give you the url burner.

* En lengua romance en Antimodernism y de mis caminaciones : And His Word Went Marching On

Wednesday, 2 April 2014

John Ritchie Sent Me Mail

1) HGL's F.B. writings : Mark Shea Asking For the Commenter he Blocked, 2) Correspondence of Hans-Georg Lundahl : I had replied to John Horvath II about The One %, 3) John Ritchie Sent Me Mail

John Ritchie to Hans-Georg Lundahl
date : 01/04/14 à 18h38
objet : Are You Pro-Life? Then Sign This Against Abortion
TFP Student Action
Defending Moral Values on Campus

Tell Catholic DePaul University not to host pro-abortion speaker

Dear Lundahl,

Please sign your pro-life petition here

You see, TFP Student Action hopes to deliver 20,000 petitions to DePaul University this month, urging them not to host pro-abortion Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer on their Catholic campus.

With your help, we can reach that goal.

But I couldn't find your name on our petition.

Your petition entry says: "unsigned"
So please sign it here

Let's defend the unborn.

Thank you for fighting the good fight,

John Ritchie
Tradition Family Property, Student Action
Hans-Georg Lundahl to John Ritchie
date : 02/04/14 à 13h29
objet : re: Are You Pro-Life? Then Sign This Against Abortion
My dear, TFP was promoting one book including warnings against hectic intemperance.

Hectic intemperance of consumption or of vice or of other things one should generally avoid being hectically intemperate about are possibly sometimes due to compensation for other hectic factors.

Like I find it a wee bit hectic to be told "Are You Pro-Life? Then Sign This Against Abortion".

I am pro-life. I have signed quite a few against abortion, and may do so again.

But this is not a question of asking Belgium not to legalise abortion, this is about one Catholic University.

It is not about the university preaching abortion, but of for one occasion allowing one doing so to do so on their ground, presumably before students who have in many cases been duly warned and who know the Church's teaching and that it is not just the Church's teaching, but the natural law.

I said "presumably", this is not equal to this being necessarily so. If they had been inviting a pro-evolution speaker, I might wonder with quite a lot of worry whether they were also inviting Tas Walker or Robert Sungenis. It might have gone so far with certain universities that their stance against abortion is by now as non-extant as their stance against evolution and heliocentrism.

If you lance quite another petition that they invite the next week a pro-life speaker, I might sign. Or you may quote my words (all of relevant paragraphs) to tell them it is my idea.

But I very much resent being bullied into signing what I do not see every pro-lifer need to sign, and on top of that being that with words suggesting I am not pro-life if I do not sign.

Some people having trouble using their leasures calmly might be there because at work they have bosses of your bullying type.

Sorry, but you asked for it!

Hans-Georg Lundahl

Oh ... wait - this was an April Fools joke, right?

Sorry, you had me for a moment, even if John Horvath II didn't with the other one.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Bibliothèque Mouffetard, Paris
St Francis of Paula

"Turonis, in Gallia, sancti Francisci de Paula Confessoris, qui Ordinis Minimorum Institutor exstitit; atque, virtutibus et miraculis clarus, a Leone Papa Decimo in Sanctorum numerum est adscriptus."
Hans-Georg Lundahl to DePaul University
date : 02/04/14 à 13h52
objet : You made an April Fools' Joke with TFP, right?
I mean, as you are a Catholic University, either you do not ask pro-abortion speakers at all, or if you do, you ask a pro-life one as well right?

Here is my reaction to the presumable April Fools' Joke:

Correspondence of Hans-Georg Lundahl : John Ritchie Sent Me Mail

I wonder how many protest mails you have harvested and laughed at!

Hans-Georg Lundahl

PS, supposing as I do it was an April Fools' Joke, and presuming your name stands for today's Saint, Happy Patron's celebration!/HGL

I had replied to John Horvath II about The One %

1) HGL's F.B. writings : Mark Shea Asking For the Commenter he Blocked, 2) Correspondence of Hans-Georg Lundahl : I had replied to John Horvath II about The One %, 3) John Ritchie Sent Me Mail

Hans-Georg Lundahl to John Horvath II (via TFP)
To a girl I used to love and who is concerned with what he wrote, to a former Father Confessor, to a Sedevacantist Catholic Magazine of Sweden and to Robert Sungenis
date : 29/03/14 à 13h45
objet : On the 1%
"My one percent represents those who earn the federal hourly minimum wage of $7.25 an hour. ... My entry level job helped me go to college and avoid student debt. My experience taught me the value of work and the need to save. Since I earned so few of them, I learned early in life to value each dollar—which was certainly worth a lot more back then. ... Like it or not, forcing the minimum wage upward necessarily drives the number of jobs downward."*

Two points:

1) If only one percent are on exact federal minimum wage, how would raising it erase jobs?

I mean, if 50 percent were on minimum wage (hardly likely to happen in any society), doubling it might make people who resort to them get their heads together and think of how to save expenses. It might land 25% of the wage earners, 50% of the 50%, in the situation of seeing their work replaced by machines. Even so the paymasters would be loosing, since doing so they would have to pay higher taxes to take care of the new out of work.

But if the minimum wage is 1% [of the population or active adult such]?

I wonder how many are on the ledge between that one percent and the limit on which one is earning twice the minimum wage.

For raising the minimum wage means that some wages previously above it are then equal to it, some below it and needing to be raised, and some still above it, but less far than previously.

2) I also wonder if Mr Horvath's experience was really morally all that useful. Avoiding study debt was a very good thing - socially. But ...

"My experience taught me the value of work and the need to save."

What does the Psalm Nisi Dominus and the repeated words of the Word made Flesh say about this?

Is the value strictly Catholic, or is at an attitude fitting for Calvinists?

"Since I earned so few of them, I learned early in life to value each dollar—which was certainly worth a lot more back then."

Knowing how much a dollar or a pound is worth is a knowledge which precisely for that reason goes out of date.

A government that decides on minimum wages might also be needing to decide on maximum prices.

Actually the minimum wage was realised in the Middle Ages indirectly as a by-product of the Maximum Wage which was part of other Maximum Prices which were part of the better measures of a sham god-king called Diocletian. One that his successor Constantine kept in force even while renouncing the sham godhood. As over Babylon one could find steles of Hammurapi's law, as over India one might still find steles of Ashoka's decree, so in Greece one may still find steles with Decretum Maximum.

Directly it came by through a reasoning that the minimum wage for every work cannot be too far from the Maximum Wage. I think half the maximum wage or half the maximum price may still be just, but just a third or a quarter would be unjust.

"Indeed, as everyone knows, most of these wage earners work in food preparation and similar services, requiring minimal skills—and less compensation."

A good point, and a reason why there are categories that are on minimum wage. But for one thing it is not the same thing to say "most" and to be precise "90%" (of the 1%) or "55%" (of the 1%).

For another thing saying someone needs to have a minimum wage due to his small contribution to society does not say the wage needs to be such that living off it becomes more and more difficult.

A third, 3) "They can conceive no charity beyond that handed out by big government."

A dole or a food stamp is a charity handed out by big government.

A minimum wage is a justice handed out by the employer to the employee.

To the employer, a minimum wage raising is a wage raised. It goes to his employee insofar as the employees income is not eaten by income tax.

A dole is a wage paid to government bureaucrats as well as an expense to a person poorer than himself.

If minimum wages are raised and taxes remain or are raised too, employers will try to get around this - perhaps by reducing unskilled labour altogether. And, as bad or worse, small employers may go out of business.

But if minimum wages are raised and taxes lowered, especially to small employers or self employed, and if doles are lowered, or replaced by punctual alms from government given also as an example to others to do alms as well, not leaving the government a "monopoly" on almsgiving (as Rome had from Caesar to well past Constantine), I think that as total expenses for employers stay equal or even lower, employers will have less need to fire unskilled labour, and small businessmen will have less threats of going bankrupt.

So, guess why this fan of minimum wages is also so NOT a fan of Inheritance Duty. My first deception with Bush Jr was not the Declaration of War against the Talibans of Afghanistan (without asking Austrian successor states for forgiveness for Woodrow Wilson blaming the war on a very similar ultimatum), no, my first deception with him was when he listened to a club called Responsible Rich (including obviously men called Gates and some similar types), and doing so broke his promise to abolish inheritance duty. As I noted back then, the guys who pontificated on how bad it is to be born with a silver spoon in the mouth would be able to die and their children would even after paying it be born with the silver spoon in the mouth, BUT a small businessman, a grocer with one shop or a farmer, would very likely know when he died that in order to pay inheritance duty their children would have to sell the business or borrow from a bank.

For my part, getting a study debt has taught me the value of staying out of debt.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Bpi, Georges Pompidou
Library in Paris
St Cyril, Deacon and Martyr 29-III-2014

* Why I Side with the One Percent
Posted on February 11, 2014 by John Horvat II

"A dole is a wage paid to government bureaucrats as well as an expense to a person poorer than himself." Should be: "A dole implies a wage paid to government bureaucrats as well as being itself an expense to a person poorer than himself." And "himself" is ambiguous, can equally stand for tax payers and bureaucrats.
John Horvath II to Hans-Georg Lundahl (via other email)
date : 01/04/14 à 18h30
objet : Thank you
Return to Order
From a Frenzied Economy to an Organic Christian Society-
Where We've Been, How We Got Here, Where We Need to Go

April 01, 2014

[My emphasis]

Dear Mr. Lundahl,

As a "Thank You" for your friendship, I'm sending you a complimentary subscription to my weekly Return to Order e-newsletter.

Return to Order is for people who grieve over the current state of America. Who believe that honor, family and virtue practiced in the context of an organic Catholic society can fix our warped culture and restore the American soul.

It took me 20 years of prayer and study to realize this truth: only an organic Catholic society can solve the moral root cause of America's economic meltdown.

If you'd rather not get my gift weekly e-newsletter, I'll remove you from the list. No problem.

But I'm 100% sure that without an all-encompassing moral renewal that transforms every aspect of human activity, America's economic crash is inevitable.

In my weekly e-newsletter, I offer completely original commentary on current events from an organic Christian perspective.

In other words, I show how an organic Catholic society is the hope and solution to America's economic and moral collapse.

To unsubscribe, click here.

Or do nothing and I'll send my Return to Order e-newsletter to your email inbox every Wednesday at 12:30PM, at absolutely no cost. God bless!


John W. Horvat II
Vice-President, The American TFP

PS – Please see what eminent Americans are saying about my book Return to Order:

[Leaving out most, but letting one remain:]

"Horvat's book is a thorough analysis…and points to the way out. This is very valuable in times when people are provided with false analyses and false solutions."

— Tadeusz Radlinski
Founder of MRM (vessel design and construction), Gdansk, Poland
Own comment to last:
If Tadeusz Radlinski is an US American residing in US and founded a company in Poland, he is a Capitalist. The problem is not that they exist. The problem is that they and their workers are so much more numerous than small shop owners.

Tadeusz Radlinski may be an eminent American (meaning US such, obviously). He may be an eminent Polish patriot despite the fact of emigrating from Poland to escape Communism. He is not an eminent friend of Malmö (where I am from, if you pronounce it Malmowe you are near the real pronunciation and Malmhowe would be ethymologically the same as Malmö) in the sense that Kockums used to be doing vessel design and construction across that southern part of the Baltic. Unless he would say that Malmö is better off with smaller ships and no grand vessel construction factory. Perhaps he is. But then perhaps so is Gdansk, a k a Danzig. Perhaps I am doing him wrong. Perhaps his company MRM is a fairly small one. Perhaps it is constructing small vessels and only now and then, perhaps once a year, a tanker which might make the world economy more hectic - or other merchant vessels of similar size. Perhaps he is thereby leaving room for other contractors, both smaller vessels and occasional tankers and other merchant vessels of similar size.

But perhaps more to the point: he is right that thorough analyses pointing the way out are an asset when people are provided with false analyses.

My point with my letter was that John Horvath II is not likely to totally mend the trend of false analyses, since I caught him redhanded in one himself.
Own comment to other point:
But I'm 100% sure that without an all-encompassing moral renewal that transforms every aspect of human activity, America's economic crash is inevitable.

An all encompassing moral renewal? Sounds like the Reformation to me. That transforms every aspect of human activity? Sorry, now it starts to sound more like Communism. A bit in between you have something which has things in common with both: MRA, Moral Re-Armament, a k a Oxford Group Movement (not to be confused with the earlier Oxford Movement called Puseyism, which was what led a former Evangelical, i e Puritan, like John Henry Newman, from Reformation to the Catholic Church).

But it does not sound very much like Medieval analyses made by Medieval people living in the Middle Ages, as accessible by their still extant writings.

And to me that suggests this is not exactly how a Medieval caught in a Time Machine and transposed to Our Time - meaning real Medievals, not sham parodic ones as in Les Visiteurs, but real Medieval Scholars - would have analysed our time. Btw, did you notice one important item left out from the header? His book is - unlike Chesterton's The Outline of Sanity - NOT dealing with where we are and why that is wrong. That is Bulverism. Presume someone is wrong, explain extensively how he came to be wrong, with intricate and subtle analyses of the history of his mind, and carefully omit to prove THAT he is wrong. Sometimes XXth C. people do it to people who are right. Annoying enough, but at least one can understand them, since being wrong they lack real arguments. Problem is when Bulverism is such a settled social habit that it is no longer noticed as such. But Horvath has shown it can be done to someone or something which is wrong, like the XXth Century (or its leading trends and tendencies for at least much of its length, or if you prefer the Century past, from 1914 to 2014). In this case it is catastrophic, since it serves to camouflage the real case against the XXth C, both Capitalism and Communism.

Here is Chesterton:



New York
This is not to cancel the subscription!
I am, of course, subscribed to Acharya Sanning (despite the Swedish meaning of the latter taken name pretty far from truth) and that in order to refute her, which on occasions I have done:

somewhere else
lundi 18 avril 2011
No, true enough Acharya, Varro did not write about Jesus ...