Topic, Geocentrism and Giants : me and tektontv

Update

Title has been added in appropriate space after the post was originally published. 31.I.2017, HGL.

Topic, Geocentrism and Giants

Date Sts Simon and Jude, Eve for first six, Day for seventh.

On occasion of his three videos

• 1) Does It Say the Earth Stood Still?
  tektontv
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inFGdj2V4YA
  
  
• 2) Did It Say the Earth Stood Still Part 2: The Vengeance
  tektontv
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujGCEYrZnlU
  
  
• 3) Fee Fi Fo Fum! Bible Giants? That's just DUMB!
  tektontv
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfTSpFhiyB8

I

Does it say the earth stood still, part 1 1:52 - were you referring to me?

Why noy say so?

Btw, I'll go back and enjoy the Entertainment ...

II

Same video: 4:24

• 1) Was Adam instructed by God?
• 2) Was Adam's word for Sunset and Sunrise semantically correct in all assumptions?
• 3) Was Adam's term lost, or was there a people retaining Adam's language by not participating in Nimrod's probable Cape Canaveral type project?
• 4) If Biblical Hebrew is identic to Adam's language, why would it use semantically wrong assumptions in describing the event?
• 5) Or are you saying EVERYONE without exception disobeyed God in trying to build a "tower the top of which reaches into heaven"? That is not how the Church reads that text.

III

Video 2, 2:42, no, 2:48 looks like the list was finished.

Joshua X:12 & 13. Note, not just Joshua X:13, which could theoretically, since in narrative, be phenomenal language.

Joshua [X] 12 is the key point, since including verbatim the words of the miracle worker. Joshua [X] 13 then confirms that the miracle happened as requested by Joshua of God, as commanded by Joshua on heavenly powers.

Otherwise, you could argue that Christ telling demons to go out of possessed is "culturally phenomenal language" (it is at least not visibly phenoman language, since demons were presumably never seen). And that overturns quite a lot of Christian assumptions about veracity of God.

IV

No part three? Then here goes for part two.

If Earth stands still, parallax is not automatically a distance measure.

If Earth stands still and no proof has come up how parallax even so would be a distance measure (and Sungenis has not so proven), then there is no reason to believe the Universe includes such distances as light years (all "further rungs" on so called cosmic distance ladder build in some way on parallax).

Then there is also no reason to believe the stars are large enough to have planets large enough to allow development of life.

In other words, no reason to believe "aliens" to be anything other than Earth based either demons or at best elves or pixies, or leprechauns, on some fancy masquerade.

If a geocentric had been allowed on the one or other video, he would have said "where are you coming from!?" to that alien.

V

Fee fo fum video ... sorry, but your polemics against LXX will just don't wash with a Catholic.

• 1) If 70 or 72 Hebrews (six Levites representing each other tribe) independently were translating nephelim as gigantes, it is God's own translation to Greek.
• 2) What they were "probably influenced by" is irrelevant.
• 3) Who says Greek stories about Titans or Giants (two different types of giant, btw) do not reflect Biblical truth, if in a roundabout way?
  
  The story of Deucalion and Pyrrha reflects truth about Noah and Abraham and Lot's daughters and even Adam. If in a roundabout way and perhaps confusing with a later flood in Thessaly where protagnists were really called so.
  
  We cannot dismiss a concept just because it coincides with Greek mythology. That is NOT what "all their gods are demons" means.
  
  Example in point, however demon possessed Augustus and Tiberius and Alexander the Great may have been, the Bible treats them as men, despite them being Pagan idols. As with Nabucco.

VI

Sarcophagus argument about Og of Bashan will not do. Two reasons. Apart of dubious interpretation of word.

• 1) a sarcophagus was not typically twice as big as the body. Add half a foot to a foot of padding in every direction, but that would make a six foot tall man having a sarcophagus 8 feet long (at most) and leave at least 11 feet six inches on 13 ft 6 in.
• 2) Who says Og ever got a sarcophagus! Hebrews were hardly offering him one and his own people were beaten to smithereens, leaving the territory of Bashan to Samaria or rather its predecessor Ephraim.

And even the reading ... well, I thought there was a part of a pillow piece too, but seem to have misrecalled. But it is far more likelier that he had a bed before dying than a sarcophagus after dying.

VII

Afterthought on eretz and "shall not be moved". I am no Hebraist, but I think Eretz corresponds to Latin "terra" rather exactly :

• 1) the whole globe, what was created just after Heaven in Genesis 1:1,
• 2) dry land as created on day 2 or 3 (think it was 3),
• 3) a specific country.

English would have Earth, Land, Land, French Terre, Terre, Pays.

Now, there is a reason to take this as referring precisly to the first sense, Earth as opposed to Heaven : if referring to sense two, dry land or continents, the earthquakes and by now also known or rather well guessed continental drifts would have refuted "it shall not be moved".

Asking about Doctors in Lourdes

I

Hans Georg Lundahl to Miracle Hunter

7/29/16 at 2:01 PM

do medical doctors at Lourdes lose either job there or medical licence in France when approving a miracle

or did they earlier on?

I have heard at least one of these and therefore I'd like to hear about it from someone who does investigate.

II

Miracle Hunter to Hans Georg Lundahl

8/1/16 at 5:43 AM

Re: do medical doctors at Lourdes lose either job there or medical licence in France when approving a miracle

Dear Hans,

I cannot verify this but I will be interviewing a former Lourdes Medical Commission member in a few weeks and will ask that question and letyou know.

God bless,

Michael O'Neill

MiracleHunter.com

Read Exploring the Miraculous from Our Sunday Visitor

Like The Miracle Hunter on Facebook

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Listen to The Miracle Hunter on Relevant Radio 12 noon eastern

Join the Miracle Hunter Newsletter

III

Hans Georg Lundahl to Miracle Hunter

8/1/16 at 6:48 PM

Re: do medical doctors at Lourdes lose either job there or medical licence in France when approving a miracle

Wonderful!

Thank you very much, awaiting your answer eagerly!

IV

Miracle Hunter to Hans Georg Lundahl

8/3/16 at 6:36 AM

Re: do medical doctors at Lourdes lose either job there or medical licence in France when approving a miracle

Dear Hans,

I spoke to the Lourdes Commission member from the United States and he said that he was unaware of any such restriction on French doctors.

I will be speaking to him again in a few weeks, so please let me know if you have another question.

God bless,

Michael

V

Hans Georg Lundahl to Miracle Hunter

8/3/16 at 3:09 PM

Re: do medical doctors at Lourdes lose either job there or medical licence in France when approving a miracle

Oh, sorry, I seem to have either heard old news no longer in place, or to have heard one of the versions wrong.

Thank you.

Correspondence avec une traductrice bénévole, Élisabeth Schillaci

I

Moi à Élisabeth Schillaci

6/15/16 at 10:30 AM

le s d f écrivain de ce matin (Hans)

Conditions:

hglwrites : Conditions d’utilisations ultérieures …
https://hglwrites.wordpress.com/conditions-dutilisations-ulterieures/

Valable pour ce blog là (qui est déconnecté) mais aussi pour mes autres blogs:

New blog on the kid : Alii bloggi, other blogs, autres blogs
http://nov9blogg9.blogspot.com/p/alii-bloggi-other-blogs-autres-blogs.html

New blog on the kid : Index Indicum
http://nov9blogg9.blogspot.com/p/index-indicum.html

Les traductions ne sont pas encore abordés.

Par contre vous faites envers moi comme si vous aviez utilisé les conditions pour réproduction.*

Hans Georg Lundahl

* Si vous faites un blog gratuit en russe (ce qui n'exclut pas des livres achetables de manière commerciale, biensûr), j'aimerais que vous me donniez le lien et que, pour chaque message en traduction vous donnez un lien vers le message en original.

II

Élisabeth Schillaci à moi

6/15/16 at 10:47 AM

RE: le s d f écrivain de ce matin (Hans)

Rebonjour!
Je lirai tout cela ce soir! Belle journée à vous et merci de partager votre richesse!
Élisabeth

III

Moi à Élisabeth Schillaci

6/15/16 at 2:42 PM

Re: RE: le s d f écrivain de ce matin (Hans)

Merci bcp!

IV

Élisabeth Schillaci à moi

6/15/16 at 10:14 PM

RE: RE: le s d f écrivain de ce matin (Hans)

Envoyé à partir d’Outlook

V

Moi à Élisabeth Schillaci

6/16/16 at 9:46 AM

Re: RE: RE: le s d f écrivain de ce matin (Hans)

Merci!

Je peux le partager?

VI

Élisabeth Schillaci à moi

6/16/16 at 9:59 AM

RE: RE: RE: le s d f écrivain de ce matin (Hans)

Évidemment ! C est vous! Je vous ai mis sur ma page Facebook et envoyer à mes amis! Belle journée Hans dans votre petit monde!

VII

Moi à Élisabeth Schillaci

6/16/16 at 2:29 PM

Re: RE: RE: RE: le s d f écrivain de ce matin (Hans)

Pas si petit que ça!

HGL's F.B. writings : My readers are very predominantly Russia and Ukraine.
http://hglsfbwritings.blogspot.com/2016/05/my-readers-are-very-predominantly.html

Par contre, pas mal de mes lecteurs ne savent pas combien je fais des sacrifices pour écrire, ni ce qu'ils pourraient faire pour m'aider.

Quant à "partager", c'est une nécessité pour profiter.

Un boulanger garde tous les pains pour soi, il gagne rien.

Un musicien joue juste en solitude, sans enregistrer non plus, il gagne rien.

Mon mode de partage est dans la première approximation plus proche de celui des musiciens de rue que des boulangers.

Pourtant, j'aimerais que d'autres fassent autrement pour que ça leur et me rapporte un peu./HGL

VIII

Élisabeth Schillaci à moi

6/16/16 at 3:12 PM

RE: RE: RE: RE: le s d f écrivain de ce matin (Hans)

En effet pas si petit!

Petit dans ce cas précis est avec une connotation émotionnelle.. En outre, ce n est pas une critique mais plutôt une manière de mettre en relief le fait que vous soyez dans le partage de vos écrits avec moi. Ce qui est humain et touchant.

IX

Moi à Élisabeth Schillaci

6/17/16 at 10:12 AM

Re: RE: RE: RE: RE: le s d f écrivain de ce matin (Hans)

Et commercial.

Je partage mes écrits, dans la forme gratuite, avec tout le monde.

Si vous faites imprimer et vendre une traduction russe (vous pouvez biensûr choisir lesquels de mes essais), vous aurez un revenu supplémentaire, et moi, vu que vous avez déjà un travail, j'aurais un espoir de toucher des "droits d'auteur volontaires" car je vous considère honnête. À vous de décider le pourcentage, biensûr. Autrement ça ne serait pas volontaire. Vous avez encore le lien vers mes conditions?

Juste en cas que vous auriez un doute sur comment je fais mes statistiques, voici ma méthode, les derniers trois blogs mis à jour étant les plus accessibles, je les prends comme exemple.

TOP TEN sur chaqu'un de ces blogs:
Germany 36		United States 32		United States 10
France 9		Ukraine 8		France 6
Ukraine 6		Australia 3		Ukraine 4
United States 6		France 3		Russia 3
Canada 2		Japan 3		United Kingdom 2
Japan 2		Latvia 1		India 2
China 1		Poland 1		Japan 1
Portugal 1		Portugal 1		Poland 1
Romania 1		Singapore 1
L'ensemble:
United States		France		Russia		01 2		Singapore
10		06		03				01
32		09				India
06 48		03 18		Poland		02		China
				01				01
Germany		Japan		01 2		Canada
36		01				02
		03		United Kingdom
Ukraine		02 6		02		Romania
04						01
08		Australia		Portugal		Latvia
06 20		03		01		01

Et, encore une fois, mes blogs sont des publications, pas un genre de journal privé, et les partager c'est mon métier, pas un signe d'intimité (par contre, si avec quelqu'un je chercherait de l'intimité, je serais fou de ne pas partager les blogs, comme étant mon métier, dans un cas comme ça: d'un côté une femme devrait savoir ce que son futur mari fait, d'un autre si je ne les partage pas, elle se ferait des imaginations idiots sur le pourquoi je suis resté dans la rue).

Si quelqu'un vous dit que c'est un signe d'intimité d'avoir montré mes blogs, le mec ou la meuf en question mérite un grand gifle de ta part!

Hans Georg Lundahl

X

Élisabeth Schillaci à moi

6/17/16 at 11:28 AM

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: le s d f écrivain de ce matin (Hans)

Bonjour,

Je n ai pas compris le sens de votre mail.

Le passage sur l intimité !)

Je ne cherche pas à gagner de l argent, mais je serais ravie de faire quelques traductions que que cela me sera possible. Les journées et les semaines passent extrêmement vite... Si vous pensez que je cherche comprendre votre situation où vous juger et bien vous vous trompez. Je pense vraiment que vous avez un potentiel intellectuel fabuleux et qu' il serait vraiment dommage de passer cela dans l ombre. Si mes traductions peuvent vous aider et que je peux le faire alors je le ferai nous sommes tous sur cette terre pour nous soutenir les uns les autres c est aussi simple que cela.Si On a peut et bien on doit le faire.

XI

Moi à Élisabeth Schillaci

6/17/16 at 7:07 PM

Re: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: le s d f écrivain de ce matin (Hans)

Ben, le passage veut simplement dire, mes publications ne sont pas quoi que ce soit intimes, normalement.

Ce que vous proposez, c'est en soi bien.

Par contre, si vous voulez me traduire, vaudra mieux que vous gagniez directement vous-même d'abord et me versiez ensuite ce que vous considérez comme juste.

À moins de faire un blog en russe, avec les articles que vous voulez traduire, mais aussi avec mes conditions traduites en russe de manière que les éventuels éditeurs-sur-papier que j'aurai en Russie ou Ukraine comprennent finalement le sens de ma démarche.

Ou les deux, l'un n'excluant pas l'autre.

Dans le cas du blog en russe, n'oubliez pas d'expliquer que je ne parle pas russe et que s'ils veulent me contacter, ils doivent m'écrire en autre langue (anglais, français etc) OU passer par vos services de traduction.

Mes excuses si j'avais fais le remarque de manière maladroite.

XII

Élisabeth Schillaci à moi

6/17/16 at 7:29 PM

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: le s d f écrivain de ce matin (Hans)

Je n ai pas besoin d argent.

Je traduis, vous les mettez en ligne. Traduire pour moi est un plaisir pas une necessite. Si je peux faire ca pour vous aider c est assez pour moi.

XIII

Moi à Élisabeth Schillaci

6/18/16 at 11:21 AM

Re: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: le s d f écrivain de ce matin (Hans)

Dans ce cas, j'aimerais d'abord mettre cette correspondence en ligne en français, ensuite vous le traduisez en russe et m'evoyez le résultat que je mets également en ligne.

Je le ferais sur un blog, dont le titre serait "Hans Georg Lundahl en russe" (mais en russe!) et dont la description est "Hans Georg Lundahl, traduit du français, de l'anglais et de l'italien par Élisabeth Schillaci Schillaci en russe".

On y va?

Hans Georg Lundahl

XIV

Élisabeth Schillaci à moi

6/18/16 at 12:43 PM

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: le s d f écrivain de ce matin (Hans)

Oui oui si ca vous rassure! N ayez crainte je ne cherche pas a vous arnaquer ou vous creer ees soucis. !)) Gardez toutes les preuves que vous voulez je ne vous veux aucun mal.. belle journee Hans!

XV

Moi à Élisabeth Schillaci

6/18/16 at 1:26 PM

Re: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: le s d f écrivain de ce matin (Hans)

Ce n'est pas une question de ME prendre des assurances, mais de LEUR en donner, les Russes étant ces jours ci assez ... parfois un peu "parano".

Donc, pour leur rassurer./HGL

Deux remarques en plus:

A

Si je dois gagner d'argent, j'ai besoin de partenaires qui veulent gagner argent aussi.

Élisabeth Schillaci aura fait une préparation, mais selon ce qu'on est maintenant en train de faire, ça reste une préparation.

Je n'ai pas peur d'être harnaqué. J'ai peur d'être figé en des préparations après préparations après préparations par des gens qui n'ont pas besoin d'argent, en même temps que ceux qui en ont besoin, les jeunes, soient isolés de mes projets, donc incapables de leur gagner d'argent pour eux-mêmes, donc pas en train d'en gagner pour moi non plus. Même si ça leur rapporterait.

B

Les zones horaires annoncées sont à partir de mon service de courriel qui est américain. Il se peut que les heures annoncés soient celles de quelque part aux États-Unis, tandis que nous nous trouvons à Paris/Nanterre.

Continuing with BG, trying to bring in history, getting a few dialogues on moral issues.

HGL's F.B. writings : 1) Marital Age and Teen Abortions ; 2) Previous Continued ; Correspondence of Hans Georg Lundahl : 3) Continuing with BG, trying to bring in history, getting a few dialogues on moral issues. ; New blog on the kid : Are Satanists Very Moral?

Date and time:

Ember Sabbath of Pentecost Octave, 21.V.2016. Between 14:16 and 16:41 Paris time.

Participants:

Myself, shortened to HGL for a show of equality, because BG is shortened to BG for protection of his anonymity. He's a British Social Worker, a Catholic (if you call Novus Ordos so) and an older acquaintance of mine. In contexts other than this question, he might seem pro-life.

HGL

I think a thread where we were debating some stats was taken down from a wall, where we were doing so.

You studied, as far as I can see, censuses and after the Industrial revolution (earliest 1856? or was that the second?).

You also stated that earlier 30 was a normal age at death.

Well, it is still a normal or even high age of death for someone having diabetes type I [type 1] and no treatment.

So, let's consider examples further back, shall we, both age at death and, for girls, age at marriage.

Is that OK?

BG

ITs a no-go zone for me Hans
the age of consent, i strongly support this
i'm a socail worker
i have dealt with HUGE numbers of sex offenders who have developed arguments in favour of lowering the age of consent

HGL

OK.

You are a social worker?

How many children AND TEENS have you separated from their parents "for their own good"?

And what are social workers doing with sex offenders?

I thought that was for policemen and for judges, for prisons and so on.

Even if you happen to be against discussing main theme, what about supporting your little tidbits of very selective facts? Like going outside your little charmed circle?

One more thing, if you get one thing from your experience as a social worker and another from St Thomas Aquinas (will link below) which do you go by?

I thought you were Catholic, but to some nowadays, that's words wigthout content.

Article 5. Whether defective age is an impediment to marriage? - SUMMA THEOLOGICA: The...
[Is impotence an impediment to marriage? Is a spell? Is frenzy or madness? Is incest?] Is defective age?
http://newadvent.org/summa/5058.htm#article5

BG

several
I facilitate transition from home to independent living

[If it was in answer to "separated from parents" I meant from home to foster home or "homes" in the collective sense. Not to independent living.]

HGL

A little quote first:

"Article 5. Whether defective age is an impediment to marriage?"
Objection 1. It would seem that deficient age is not an impediment to marriage. For according to the laws children are under the care of a guardian until their twenty-fifth year. Therefore it would seem that before that age their reason is not sufficiently mature to give consent, and consequently that ought seemingly to be the age fixed for marrying. Yet marriage can be contracted before that age. Therefore lack of the appointed age is not an impediment to marriage.
Reply to Objection 1. In matters to which nature inclines there is not required such a development of reason in order to deliberate, as in other matters: and therefore it is possible after deliberation to consent to marriage before one is able to manage one's own affairs in other matters without a guardian.

BG

disabled and severely handicapped.
Home is the best place

HGL

"I facilitate transition from home to independent living" - oh, sex offenders in homes, why not prison?

[I still thought he meant homes in collective sense. Like where five to ten or fifteen teens live supervised by someone not their parent and not having full approval of parents either. Those are the kind of social workers I find most offensive.]

BG

but if they are to go independent its great that the family keep control over their needs and support
and also close by, to ensure they remain an integral part of family
no, i worked with parole service

HGL

ah

sex offenders on parole, ok

BG

they are individually able to give sufficient consent in degree
but i support the protection of children ie. under 18 given ...some protection
still i have never met a guy under 25 in prison for having ...sex with a girl between 13-18

HGL

St Thomas Aquinas thought a person should have some kind of parental protection up to 25.

However, not barring marriage at puberty.

BG

Hans- i suspect you've made up your mind on this through lots of wrestling in the mind
BUT take it from me mate
leave it alone
its not worth it
get on with living
and forget the case
sure, you have a point probably
and i think the consent age is fluid
with age and circumstances, education
but its not a good look to encourage the removal of consent age
a better cause might be to support greater safeguards for minors
so they can be children
this includes prosecuting parents who allow their children to use internet without supervision and safeguards

HGL

"consent age is fluid with age" - a great one.

Other point, I am NOT asking for consent age to be removed, but to be lowered back to where it was before it was heightened.

"minors, so they can be children"?

C'mon!

Teen depression cause one is treating physical adults as mental children.

[20] Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing to the Lord. [21] Fathers, provoke not your children to indignation, lest they be discouraged.
From Colossians ch. 3.

"prosecuting parents who allow their children to use internet without supervision and safeguards"

Even when nothing bad happens? Just because some social worker or teacher knows a child or even a "child" as in a teen has gone to a site he doesn't like?

What would happen if my blog (link below) were on your black list of paedo blogs, which it does not deserve, and a parent had allowed his teen girl to read it?

Would the parent be prosecuted for that?

HGL's F.B. writings
http://hglsfbwritings.blogspot.com

BG

its not a good look Hans--- this MUST be left to women
let them make the case, NOT you
I'm just protecting your reputation

HGL

"its not a good look Hans--- this MUST be left to women"

Some say that of abortion decision too, you know?

"let them make the case, NOT you"

I have let Amanda Lewin do her case with her name and LAG - you know who - anonymised under initials.

"I'm just protecting your reputation"

That is for me to do or not. You are not and hope will never be my legal guardian, as far as I know I am not under such a one.

I am 47.

People treating me as if I needed a guardian are precisely the kind of evil men who have stopped me from getting a wife.

Usually of age above 18. That's where I have usually looked, because under that age stopping it is so much easier. However, usually not above 30.

Now, that cleared up, or perhaps not, what about your stats

"I've checked many census in my studies and overall there is little variation. eg : 1863, Women: 21.0; Men 25.8, 1900 Women: 21.9; Men: 25.9, 1950 Women: 20.3; Men: 22.8; 1975 Women: 21.1; Men: 23.5"

What about checking Medieval examples?

"Of course in some places because of factors like land availability, disease- and mortality rate (30 was fairly normal age of death before 19th century)"

What proof have you of that?

Your own studies go back to after middle of that 19th C..

HGL (added later, after silence)

C'mon, you were arguing from history, is that less welcome when you have to do with a person having some knowledge of it?

BG

c'mon Hans- My wife is REALLY young asian chic-- and I can tell you its not fun married to a girl look elsewhere, find a mother!!!!

[laughing dog emoticon]

HGL

That was not what I was discussing.

I am trying to find a mother FOR MY CHILDREN to be.

Not for myself.

And a thousand men or women trying to act as if they could mother me, well that smothers me in the search.

If I married an age peer, I probably would get one who by lack of children of her own would start mothering me, and though I dearly love my mother, her mothering was enough, more of it by others starts getting smothering.

And you have still preferred talking TO me about ME, to talking WITH me about a historical SUBJECT.

Perhaps because you don't master it?

Hope your Asian chic reads this and gets a good laugh at her hubby!

BG

i love her, but i do not recommend any man to find a woman half his age. Nothing beats equal experience!!!

HGL

There are exsperiences superior to mine, among them marrying young, which I was denied.

I don't think there is any experience exactly equal to mine.

Chesterton said sth about marriage being a seesaw.

That does not come off as a bench where both are equal all the time.

So, how about quitting the preaching and letting me present some historic research I did?

BG

none of these people Chesterton, Aquinas.... etc would support of lowering the consent age today... none.
no, i'm not interested
the age of consent was ncessary
as the nation state arose
because legal framework replaced customs/ taboos
its still socially acceptable in parts of indonesia and even catholic philippines to a kind of marriage at 15
i would like to see even provincial girls educated
before committing
I don't think they should be subserient to a land owning gentry
I want them to be equal
and free to serve
the family
I totally 100% in favour of 18 for now
however if we have a huge plague
and a third of our population is wiped off
and most women do not even reach age 35
then I think it prudent to quicken their education
and empower teenagers to marry as young as 15
[thumbs up]
just like in the gospel as man spread --- he also multiplied upon many, taking many wives
each age must dictate what it necessary to be safe
and protect young immature girls from the prying and powerful

HGL

"none of these people Chesterton, Aquinas.... etc would support of lowering the consent age today... none."

That's your guess. As a "theologian" (i e believer dealing with clergy) I have dealt with people guessing if Jesus had lived today, He'd have supported female ordination, legal sodomy, heliocentrism and evolution (He was a child of his times, you know) ....

That is NOT how I do historic figures, I read what they wrote or said to those who wrote it down.

"no, i'm not interested"

Ah, a clear case of social-worker-itis!

[Note for others : the clinical tone is irony. Heresy and stubborn pride is not disease either of them in any clinical sense.]

Interested in presenting HIS facts, whether facts or not, but NOT interested in any facts which could disturb them.

"the age of consent was ncessary
as the nation state arose
because legal framework replaced customs/ taboo"

In St Thomas Aquinas' time the legal framwork had been in place since pre-Christian times.

Roman Empire introduced matrimonial consent limit at 14/12, accoridng to philophers, but while Pagan often flouted it. Church saw to it to start respecting it.

So if you imagine the 14/12 limit is tribal taboo, you are simply wrong.

And this was before some of the parts of Europe were as yet nation states.

"its still socially acceptable in parts of indonesia and even catholic philippines to a kind of marriage at 15"

In South Carolina, in 1995, it was acceptable for a 12 year old girl to marry an old man (I think she was n ot looking forward to too intensive sex) in order to get out of school, which otherwise would have kept her till 16.

Bill Clinton ended that liberty. So, you are taking Bill Clinton's side.

In Italy, it was in fact the "nation state" which introduced an 18/18 limit. Under Papal State legislation, as in Spain at least a few decades after fall of Papal States, the limit was .... you guessed it, I suppose : 14/12.

"i would like to see even provincial girls educated"

One priority one can share.

[Verbally, at least. He seems to consider school attendance as education.]

"before committing"

I suppose their parents did some educating before 12 or 15? Right?

You know, Chesterton fairly well DID say educating was mainly the parents' business, while school was more like there to give instruction on specific subjects.

"I don't think they should be subserient to a land owning gentry"

But, while not wanting village girls to be subservient to land owning gentry, you don't mind town or city girls closer home being subservient to teachers and to people like you?

"I want them to be equal
and free to serve
the family"

Parents, but not husband?

What if making grandchildren were a great favour to bestow on your parents?

"I totally 100% in favour of 18 for now"

In that case you are as extreme as Muslims. Know why?

Extreme ages for complete but still normal puberty are 9 and 18.

NORMAL range is between 11:th and 14:th birthday for 90% of girls, between 13:th and 16:th for 90% of boys.

"however if we have a huge plague
and a third of our population is wiped off
and most women do not even reach age 35
then I think it prudent to quicken their education
and empower teenagers to marry as young as 15"

May I remind you that St Thomas Aquinas lived a calendar century earlier than the plague?

The Black Death was ONE year of the middle ages, perhaps two, in most places.

[Earliest places it came : 1347, latest places taking a sigh of relief : 1349. St Thomas had died before 1277.]

It's like saying "as in the times of Noah" must mean very rainy weather, because the Deluge was surrounding his 600:dth birthday or came just after!

"just like in the gospel as man spread --- he also multiplied upon many, taking many wives
each age must dictate what it necessary to be safe
and protect young immature girls from the prying and powerful"

In my book, it's people like you who are prying and powerful.

As for "each age", that is the baloney of developing morals.

Chesterton once mentioned, if a chessboard has no fixed colours of the squares, it's not just that black squares can be painted white, it's also that white squares can be painted black.

Marriage at puberty used to be a white square (unless the puberty was precocious like at 9). You are a perfect example of what Chesterton warned against, and the fact is, you are helping to paint a square that used to be black, namely murder of the unborn, at least a few shades lighter grey than before.

Oh, nearly missed this one:

"and protect young immature girls from the prying and powerful"

YOU say they are immature. Are they always agreeing? If so, how many of them are doing so to escape your extortion like powers as social worker? If not, how do you relate to a thirteen year old girl, pregnant, who, very properly, thinks she should raise her child with its father?

Do you tell her "she's not mature"?

HGL (adding after silence)

Telling her that is not very helpful either to her or to her child, you know.

[Next I notified him, and time limit is valid for dialogue up to here.]

BG

you lost me, when comparing support for abortion with lowering the consent age. again i am not interested in your personal project of lowering the consent age. Good bye

HGL

Feel free to leave debate, and to leave me with these final words:

a woman who is pregnant naturally wants to keep and raise her child, abortion is only chosen due to trauma (especially in young and so far healthy girls) and one kind of trauma is precisely that of being told one is too young to keep and raise the child.

HENCE, whether you want it to or not, whether you are even aware of it or not, you are indirectly supporting the abortion.

[written, but when trying to send:]

FB mail

Cette personne ne reçoit actuellement pas de messages de votre part.

Update on facts:

Russia went bad before Revolution.

Imperial laws were very particular with the age in which serfs could marry. The minimum age to marry was 13 years old for females, and 15 for males. After 1830 the female and male ages were raised to 16 and 18 respectively. To marry over the age of 60, the serf had to receive permission, but marriage over the age of 80 was forbidden. The Church also did not approve marriages with large age differences.

Avdeev, Blum, Troitskaia, Juby, "Peasant Marriage", 731–33.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Russia

The modern craze about stigmatising as "pedophilia" anything below 18 is clearly an example of Russia spreading its errors through the world.

What did "Father" Rosica say?

// That means that Catholic media should “listen,” rather than merely “hear,” as it engages in dialogue.

It also means that church media should communicate with everyone, without exception.

It further means that “Christians ought to be a constant encouragement to communion and, even in those cases where they must firmly condemn evil, they should never try to rupture relationships and communication.” //

Not quite the behaviour of BG. Not that I blame him totally, as he lacks arguments.

Father Zuhlsdorf could also be heard.

He quotes a certain Richard Cohen of Washington Post.

Fr. Z's Blog : WaPo bigot attacks Rick Santorum’s Catholicism
Posted on 28 February 2012 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2012/02/wapo-bigot-attacks-rick-santorums-catholicism/

The citation is interspersed with Father Z’s comments :

Richard Cohen on WaPo

Mullah Rick has spoken.

He wants religion returned to “the public square,” is opposed to contraception, premarital sex and abortion under any circumstances, wants children educated in what amounts to little red schoolhouses and called President Obama a “snob” for extolling college or some other kind of post-high school education. This is not a political platform. It’s a fatwa.

Father Z interspersing in square brackets and red :

[Liberals control the education system, of course.  It is a chief method of indoctrination.  Liberals want to make sure that all kids are under their aegis for as long as possible.  That way they can suck kid’s brains out and pump their skulls full their lefty … detritus.]

My comment :

BG seems closer to Richard Cohen than to Father Zuhlsdorf.

H/T to Dymphna

For sending me off to read Father Z.

Dymphna's Road : Looks like the Main Stream Media is having a little anti Catholic moment
Wednesday, February 29, 2012 : Posted by Dymphna at 8:12 PM
http://dymphnaroad.blogspot.fr/2012/02/looks-like-main-stream-media-is-having.html

Sorry for

Links temporarily not working, if that be the case. A library in Paris has arranged for its computers to show a hyphen instead of equals sign. Will try to fix as soon as getting to an internet café, meanwhile, copy paste links and put in adress bars.

A correspondence with a fishy FB page called Scholasticum

Their page

Scholasticum
Catholic Church · Educational Organization · Charity Organization
https://www.facebook.com/Scholasticum-1649070132036906/

I

Me to Page

Sat 6:43pm

I suppose you are in general philosophy thomistic, except for some scoticism on principium individuationis (me too, haecceitas rocks).

But how Thomasic are you on questions like angelic movers?

HGL's F.B. writings : Debating with Sungenis, Mainly
http://hglsfbwritings.blogspot.com/2016/03/debating-with-sungenis-mainly.html

II

Page to Me

Wed 11:20am

This FB page is for the Institute: regarding particular theses of Saint Thomas or Bonaventure, you have to contact our instructors. However, Its not in harmony with Scholasticism to deny the equivocity or multivocity of terms; that denial rather is a modern error.

III

Me to Page

Wed 1:16pm

was I denying multivocity of terms like "idea"?

(ante rem, in re, post rem)

as to your instructors, why not forward our correspondence?

IV

Page to Me

Wed 5:41pm

You misunderstand. The FB page is for publicity, to public relations right now. Perhaps in the future, though.

As for multivocity, if you did not deny it, then we did not say you denied it.

[Please

check out his last line!]

V

Me to Page

just after

OK, and the person DOING this publicity has no relation otherwise to the instructors?

I happened to think that was a usual procedure?

VI

Page to Me

Thu 6:16pm

No, I am not a member of the Faculty, only a lowly FB volunteer.

VII

Me to Page

just after

I was not saying YOU were a member of the Faculty.

I am saying you have THEIR contact information.

If not, I think you were somewhat stupid to volunteer.

VIII

Page to Me

Fri 2:49pm

Right now we are very busy with the many things regarding starting and founding and setting up an institute, we don't have a PR person to answer questions from the net....sorry...

IX

Me to Page

Fri 7:20pm

WELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL .... if you know the faculty members THAT well, you also are able to forward and see if one can make a kind of exception.

X

Page to Me

St Joseph's Day, 8:40am

Dear Mr. Lundahl, no, we cannot make such an exception, we have much greater responsibilities at this time. Thank you.

XI

Me to Page

11:53am

Oh, a scholastic with "greater responsibilities" than answering questions.

VERY interesting.

Half a correspondence on Catholic Church and Bible

I was replying to an article on the site Risen Jesus, not at all sure if it was this one I just linked to* or another.

I seem to have in my initial response said sth about Catholic Tradition being why we know the authors (apart from genuine or forged claims by real author to be such and such a person, most authors are known in such a way as would make the category pseudepigrapha - wrong attribution - at least possible, except for the fact a tradition is there attributing the book to such and such an author**. So, I might have asked why he believed Catholic tradition about Gospel attributions, but not about ... "Catholicism" ... as in the parts of Catholicism rejected by Protestants.

Now, my original latter is so far still lost somewhere on their computers, and I therefore start with a belated reply and give mine to it. Labelling the reply II, in case the I should reemerge.

II

Nick Peters to me

07/01/16 à 21h20

Risen Jesus

Hi Hans. Thanks for writing. Please accept our apologies for the delay in our response. We just discovered a glitch in the contact area of our website which resulted in us not receiving about 500 messages. The issue has now been resolved and we are working diligently to respond to those messages that were not received. Mike's a busy guy, so he has me, his son-in-law and apologetics colleague Nick Peters to help him with these questions. I'd answer that we have textual evidence that is there independent of the Catholic Church. The transmission of the manuscripts is not dependent on the doctrines derived from those manuscripts or traditions. Hope this helps! Sorry about the delay! In Christ, Nick Peters

III

Me to Nick Peters

1/8/16 at 4:22 PM

re: Risen Jesus

I'd love to respond to this, but I cannot find my earlier message.

So, if you find it, please forward it again back to me. But to my new mail, hgl@dr.com, please, since this one will close.***

Meanwhile, here:

1) "I'd answer that we have textual evidence that is there independent of the Catholic Church."

As for OT, you have Jews who rejected Christ. But as for Gospels, you have precisely Catholic Church plus its clearly non-Protestant rivals about position of being THE apostolic Church.

There was a time before Chalcedonians split around 1053 into Catholic and Orthodox, but neither is Protestant, nor were their positions before that date so.

There was a time before Nestorians and Monophysites diverged from each other and from Chalcedonians, like before 451 and before 431. But Nestorians and Monophysites (or Armenians plus Copts, since there are two groups) also have clearly non-Protestant positions clearly reminding of Catholic ones, shared with Catholics and Orthodox, and so had the Christian people before that split.

You do NOT have a text tradition by the way of Donatists, Montanists, Novatians. These left too little records of their own, apart from Tertullian who was a Montanist.°

2) "The transmission of the manuscripts is not dependent on the doctrines derived from those manuscripts or traditions."

If we can presume God has given full preservation for the salvation relevant portions of the text, why should He not also have preserved His own CHurch in Her fulness in one of the five non-Protestant groups? These being, as said, Catholics, Orthodox, Cops and Armenians, Nestorians. And finding out which of them is the true Church is NOT like looking for a needle in a haystack, since there are only five of them.

Now, I do not think doctrines of the true Church, especially as proposed under penalty of excommunication for those not believing it (the doctrines that are dogmas), can be merely DERIVED from texts and traditions and not be included IN them.

Since the promise was, precisely, to preserve His Church, and to preserve Revelation as a whole ("my word"/"His word"), not to preserve a specific collection of texts.

Also, without a doctrinal community, where do you find a decision even on what texts BELONG TO the Word of God?°°

No, the transmission of manuscripts can very well go on humanly speaking as usual without all conclusions draw from them remaining the same. But the transmission of manuscripts of the Gospel can also not, independently of the Church, establish they are history rather than fiction. We know this from the community that received them, precisely as we know from the community that received Lord of the Rings, in the reverse case, that it is fiction and not history.

Anyway, whether you bother to reply to this, or not, please do send my original message to other adress, and thank you for sending me this reply!

Hans Georg Lundahl
Nanterre UL
Holy Martyrs Lucian (priest) and
Maximian and Julian of Beauvais
8-I-2016

Notes:

* Risen Jesus : Review of Bart Ehrman’s book “Forged: Writing in the Name of God”… http://www.risenjesus.com/review-of-bart-ehrmans-book-forged-writing-in-the-name-of-god

** The tradition I have heard about the name "J. R. R. Tolkien" on covers of Lord of the Rings is that he wrote it. And that the claim of his having translated it from a very ancient Adunaic book (a claim stated in the book) is a literary joke. Precisely as Umberto Eco joked about having found a manuscript by Adso of Melk containing a story in which a Brother Jorge obsessed with apocalypse etc. commits murders of any readers of a certain manuscript, simply by poisoning the pages, because he found the treatise by Aristotle on Comedy a poisonous reading. This story is of course from a very XXth C. view on what fanaticism entails, and among other things it is there to claim Catholicism in Middle Ages was very like Stalinism in this respect. We have no such story from the known manuscripts of the Middle Ages. The Name of the Rose is a novel, not a reedition of an autobiographical manuscript. This I believe on the tradition I have from when the books were published. I was sixteen for the latter book, not yet born for the former (actually my mother was eighteen when it was completed in 1955 : the chronological distance is like the distance between us), but for either of them, I believe tradition about who wrote and what kind of book it was meant to be taken for.

*** This is a notification to readers wishing to correspond to me, that this has already happened. Will change on "if you wish to correspond with me" page too.

° And even he doesn't give you complete Bibles, just confirmation by way of heresy early separated from Catholic Church that even before that separation Catholic Church accepted such and such a book. Which Tertullian quoted. °° Tertullian's doctrinal unity is no longer extant and isn't helpful for all that many books even for his quotes.

Was Dwight Ever Outright Heretic? If So, it is Here I Blamed him

1) Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : Fable and Allegory, 2) Correspondence of Hans Georg Lundahl : With Dwight on Definition of Fundies, 3) Dwight Longenecker Not Knowing What Computers Are, and Not Answering a Challenge On It, 4) With Dwight on Fundies, Again, 5) One item on Dwight, related to Teen Marriages, 6) Was Dwight Ever Outright Heretic? If So, it is Here I Blamed him, 7) Φιλολoγικά/Philologica (again) : Dwight Longenecker and Bildungsroman

Me to Dwight

13/05/15 à 10h37

This one too, Modernist Heretic!

Here* is a piece of utter blasphemous heresy, worthy of the once well known Dean Inge of sad memory:

"Instead, we should think of it like this: God is good, beautiful and true and it his nature to pour his graces into the world at all times. His goodness, truth and beauty radiates in and through his creation as the sunlight radiates into the world bring light and life to all things. This radiation of goodness, truth and beauty is never ending, all present and all powerful.

"Prayer is the means by which we join our will with His will. If you like we become the channels and directors of that goodness, truth and beauty in the world.

...

"We’ve all experimented with a magnifying glass to make a fire. The magnifying glass harnesses and focusses the existing sunlight for a particular purpose: to light a fire. I believe prayer works like that magnifying glass: it concentrates, focusses and magnifies God’s great power for a particular application.

"That works: Then I remember that in the Magnificat the Blessed Mother sings, “My soul magnifies the Lord…” and I wonder if this other deeper meaning is part of the mystery of her who’s whole life was a prayer."

This makes:

• 1) God impersonal, like pantheism does, unless one prefers to say your rubbish IS pantheism;
• 2) bypasses and in a quiet way actually does away with God's being all knowing.

Bruce Almighty might be bad, but not half as bad as your text.

Repent or go to Hell.

THIS rubbish is certainly NOT what I intended to convert to when leaving Swedish Church for Catholicism, indeed, it is kind of what I hated about Modernist Lutherans even while technically being one myself.

If you want a debate, that is fine, and if you want to be "mature", do that not by fudging theology, but by defending or recanting your theses. Feel free to suspend my warning (which is btw not an ecclesiastic superior one, I am not pretending to be your bishop or pope) until debate is over, when I hope you might be doing sth better than chosing the Hellfire.

Your "other deeper meaning" is heresy and adding heresy to a word with Marian connexion, especially one by Herself, is also insulting to Our Lady.

Hans Georg Lundahl
from Nanterre University Library
on St Robert Bellarmine
(and Our Lady of Fatima, by now?)
13-V-2015

* How Does God Answer Prayer?
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/how-does-god-answer-prayer

So, if above is heresy, where is truth? Here:

God grants prayers as He wishes. How pleasing a person is to Him is certainly part of why He wishes or not to do so. But any event He is perfectly free to grant even the worst prayer, as to the quality of soul praying and of attitude in prayer, and to deny any prayer, even the best, except He will not do that to prayers of His Blessed Mother. God wants us, but does not need us, to prepare the arrival of His goodness by praying and by praying well and by being in the state of grace while praying.

One item on Dwight, related to Teen Marriages

1) Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : Fable and Allegory, 2) Correspondence of Hans Georg Lundahl : With Dwight on Definition of Fundies, 3) Dwight Longenecker Not Knowing What Computers Are, and Not Answering a Challenge On It, 4) With Dwight on Fundies, Again, 5) One item on Dwight, related to Teen Marriages, 6) Was Dwight Ever Outright Heretic? If So, it is Here I Blamed him, 7) Φιλολoγικά/Philologica (again) : Dwight Longenecker and Bildungsroman

Me to Dwight

13/05/15 à 10h19

If you answer, count on getting published ...

Main peeve I have with your text* is this one:

Another example is universal sex education. The sex educators think that teen pregnancy, STDs and abortion will be reduced if only more young people were educated about contraceptive techniques, safe sex techniques and varied sexual practices. Of course when this happens there are more young people having sex so there are more STDs, teen pregnancies and abortions. The sex educators look at the results, scratch their heads and say, “I guess we need MORE sex education at a younger age.” So they start telling first graders about X rated stuff.

Teen pregnancy is of course lower if pregnancies are prevented or shortened by contraceptives or abortion.

BUT you seem to be OK with teen pregnancies being targetted as sth which should not be there?

You see, what a Catholic wants to avoid is UNWED teen pregnancies. And you seem to be NOT proposing the cures for that:

• 1) change legislations back so that the 14 v / 12 m age limit of the Catholic Church over centuries gets to be civil law again;
• 2) change regulations, school system, taxes so that not only rare genius teens-fit-to-be-employers (there was one in GB in the news), but also someone just wanting to have a regular job with an employer shall be able to support a family while still in teens;
• 3) ban co-ed after puberty (see Divini Illius Magistri) and any school concerts involving rock or disco and dancing, so that unfortunate teens who cannot yet afford to marry shall be less tempted.**

Subsidiary peeve:

A good example of this is left wing economics. Every experiment in socialism and communism has been a social, economic, human and political disaster of gigantic proportions. Nevertheless, left wingers continue to believe that what is needed is not to get rid of socialism forever, but to have MORE socialism.

• 1) I agree that socialism, socialising what could and should be private property, is bad;
• 2) I do not agree that every experiment in communism was bad : Benedictines, kibbutzniks and hippies on voluntarily communist collective farms seem to be doing fine and dandy;
• 3) and there are of course other restrictions on private property while it remains private than socialist taxing, some of which are good: max prices (steles with the decree of Diocletian will still stand in Greek villages and the text will be preserved from eradication by erosion by Greek Orthodox clergy or the men doing their work), minim wages, antitrust laws.

The main problem with Fiscal Socialism (which means a bloated Public Sector providing more and more of the livelihoods and including those that do bad things, like abortion, psychiatry, child protective services doing statenappings, public school teaching evolutionist or heliocentric lies ... while banning or plotting to ban home schooling ...) is that it is so close to a trust. With post offices, I don't see*** how it could be done otherwise, but the general observation stands.

Meaning of course that Big Business has a moral problem pretty similar to Socialism.

Still want your adress not shown, as usual?

Hans Georg Lundahl
ESI St Martin
27 ter Bd de St Martin
75003 Paris

* Modernism is Madness
May 12, 2015 by Fr. Dwight Longenecker
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2015/05/modernism-is-madness.html

Only peeve on "continue reading" is you are not identifying Bergoglio as an Antipope proning what you rightly call madness. At least in the broader sense of the word.

** To recommend starting fasting in teens, even if Catholic Church requires it only from 21, is of course also a bonus for chastity.

*** I could make a try, but I am not sure how to get it together in all respects. Contracted local businessmen known for honesty and integrity (i e preferrably no bankers or stockmarket brokers!) - is such a contract really all that different from the post office systems we have? Don't know, but that was the system when post offices started.